Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Graphic Designer Podcast! In this episode, we’re excited to have Kyle Courtright joining us. Kyle, a visionary who rejected the traditional 9-5 grind, has been making waves in the freelancing world. His impressive client roster includes big names such as PayPal, Toyota, Chipotle, Walmart, NVIDIA, NFL, NBA, and the USA Olympics. But that’s not all—Kyle also manages two additional companies! One, Logo Wave, is dedicated to recognizing exceptional design work, adding value to organizations and boosting careers. The other is a subscription-based design service. Curious to learn more? Tune in to find out!

 

Listen to the episode here:

Spotify  –  Apple Podcasts  –  Amazon Music

 

You will learn:

• How Kyle got these amazing Fortune 500 companies as a graphic designer.
• What platforms he uses to land design clients, and not just any client but high-value and high-paying clients.
• If LinkedIn is worth the effort + a personal story of posting every day for 6 months with no results.
• How he manages to work only 20-30 hours a week while running 3 design companies.
• If SEO is still relevant and what you can do to get in front of potential clients that Google and search for your services.

This episode is super valuable, and I am sure you’ll love it!

About Kyle Courtright:

Kyle Courtright is an award-winning designer, mentor and author specializing in brand design. He’s worked with 650+ entities in over a decade including widely recognized brands like PayPal, Toyota, Walmart, Chipotle, Lowe’s, NVIDIA and USA Olympics. Kyle is the founder of Logo Wave, a reimagined logo awards platform recognizing and rewarding designers, bringing additional value to their creative services for positive career impact. He’s also the founder of Etch, a productized brand design agency with a small but mighty team of ten. He also created the Logo Inspiration Generator Tool and authored The Ultimate Guide to Logo Design, now purchased by designers spanning 6 continents and over 50 countries. He’s passionate about helping designers reach their career goals and leveling up their creative craft!

etchdesign.co | courtrightdesign.com | logowave.com

linkedin.com/in/kcourtright | x.com/kcourtdesign | x.com/mylogowave

 

Aventive Academy’s Resources:

$12k Client Attraction Masterclass: https://aventiveacademy.com/attract-clients-workshop/

The Wealthy Client Blueprint: ⁠https://aventiveacademy.com/wealthy-client/

12-Week Business Program for Designers: https://aventiveacademy.com/profit

The Creative CEO Accelerator: https://aventiveacademy.com/accelerator

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TRANSCRIPT:

0:00
One of the things that really is the biggest value prop and especially you know think of it from a marketing manager’s perspective of these demo calls that I have with these marketing managers. They think in terms of our ROI more than you know any designer might. And so they’re thinking in terms of how do I justify this to the CFO and and and you know go about things that way.

0:23
So you know you got to almost put on your marketing cap to some extent and know about how they speak and their, their language. And so it’s really the conversation goes into the ROI of design and the distinction there.

0:56
Welcome to the Profitable Graphic Designer podcast, brought to you by Aventive Academy. I’m your host, Kady Sandel. I’m a brand strategist, designer, creative director and the CEO of a successful 6-figure design agency based in Austin, TX serving clients worldwide.

1:14
After mastering the art of building a profitable and sustainable design business, I decided to help you achieve the same success. I teach brand, graphic and web design business owners how to attract more clients, increase their pricing and develop design businesses that provide the financial freedom and time flexibility you’ve always dreamt of.

1:34
We offer online programs, courses and templates that you can use along with our Coaching Accelerator and Mastermind high touch experiences for creatives. You can learn more about starting and growing your design business at aventiveacademy.com, but for now, grab a cup of coffee and join me in today’s podcast episodes.

1:56
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Profitable Graphic Designer Podcast. In this episode, we’re talking about freelancing and entrepreneurship, and we have a special guest. Kyle is a seasoned designer and entrepreneur with a vault of experience in running multiple businesses while maintaining a healthy work life balance.

2:18
He’s been working with Fortune 500 companies like PayPal, Toyota, Walmart, Chipotle, and so on. But before we start our discussion, I just want to say that this is like a full circle to me. So in 2016, I bought an e-book that’s all about logo design.

2:37
And in that book I found something that either I really liked or it was a title. Like I’m not sure. I just know there was something. And so I reached out to the author and we started a conversation and I never even thought he would like respond to me.

2:53
So this was eight years ago when I thought, oh, I just need to improve my design skills and I will get clients. And so Kyle is our guest today and he was one of the first freelance designers I ever, you know, started talking with.

3:10
And now we both have done amazing things since then and now I have him on the podcast like it’s wild. OK. So let’s kick things off by inviting Kyle to introduce himself. So Kyle, welcome and please tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

3:30
Well Kady, thank you so much for that kind intro. You’re too kind. And yeah it’s it’s fun how we are having this full circle moment here and and chatting on this podcast together. This is fun. So yeah yeah. As far as kind of a bit of my story goes I from from high school I knew that design was what I wanted to do.

3:52
I was. I feel like one of the rare lucky ones to know it early on. But when you’re sitting in classrooms waiting for that next bell to ring and all of a sudden you get in this graphic design class where you just wanted to keep going, I knew there was something there.

4:08
So my mom’s an art teacher, my dad a pharmaceutical sales rep. So it made sense to eventually turn this into a freelance business where I maybe got you know some of the sales side from him and my the artistic event from my mom. So you know at at the beginning though it wasn’t all daisies and roses as they say got to build up this client base and honestly Kady, I I think we’ve talked about this before.

4:36
I I I didn’t think that it would turn into you know on business in the first place. It felt like a hobby really at the beginning as I started to build that base. But eventually, you know, it kind of turned into this, you know, branding design business to where the cornerstone really was logo design.

4:57
And you know, I I love logo design and it happened to be kind of the hinge point to a lot of the rest of other types of design, right. You know once you end the logo finds 12:50 a website and some business cards and some you know brand brand guidelines and some of these other things that innately come you know after that or in a subsequent way.

5:19
So I happened to like logo I kind of stumbled upon it and but I knew that I had to promote the business right. And so you know now I’m you know almost coming up on 15 years full time freelance but at the time was working low paying 9 to fivers that were honestly for the the risk of sounding I don’t know over dramatic maybe or or soul sucking for me.

5:45
And I knew there is there is more to this this life than just kind of working in a you know a situation at the time it was like an agency where it was really production minded and I like the strategy behind design right. There’s there needs to be strategies. So anyway dabbled in digital marketing. I I knew that I needed to learn digital marketing in order to promote myself and and market myself in a way that not only was effective but really cost cost effective.

6:19
So you know, didn’t have a lot to work with at the beginning. So I knew that. So I happened to dabble in organic SEO and just learned as much about SEO as I could. And at this time, gosh, this is going to date me, but you know that was, gosh, what what year was that? I was 2000 and around 2010 you could get quick wins with SEO. It’s still, you can still get some quick wins here or there, but it’s it’s more of a long game that you’re playing, right. So you know I started to rank for these keyword terms in my local area and that’s really what what started to shoot the the company to the moon and eventually went full time freelance and and here we are.

7:01
So yeah, I’ll stop there, but there’s been part of the story. But that was kind of the, the, you know, introduction to the design world in this freelance business of mine. Yeah, amazing. And can you tell us like, why did you decide to freelance at a first place instead of just having a stable, normal nine to five job?

7:25
When I was little, I started mowing when I was 14 and had a mowing business with around 10 clients, had a car wash business, you know, a little bit before that. And so I kind of went by the beat of my own drums since I was really little.

7:43
And you know, I’ve never really worked for an in-house type of feel for longer than a year. There’s a couple little, little times there that I I did work in house was like well, I figured out really quickly that wasn’t that wasn’t for me. It’s OK if someone loves that, that’s great, that’s collaborative and great.

8:02
But for me, freelance was the answer. You know there’s a tribe with people that I followed along the way and books that I’ve read where it’s like every time I hear you know everything about this consulting you know slash freelance world is like that’s that’s what I want.

8:18
And you know, we’re told, you know, maybe a generation or two before us that has to be this certain way And that’s still creeping into, you know, some of our conversations today with and you know, in certain circles. But I think you know especially post this post COVID era if if we can mention that I think you know, there is this light bulb moment especially from these tech companies saying hey, we don’t have to bring on, you know, we don’t have to have all this talent in-house necessarily.

8:50
They can work from home And you know, the studies show that, you know, we don’t want to be looked over the shoulder and and have that micromanaging kind of feel. So yeah that that felt like my tribe and it still US and whenever someone reaches out to me and said hey you know I’m looking to maybe not you know you know I I don’t want to be in house anymore fight the traffic and do all those things anymore how do how do I get there like and and for people listening to this if you want to reach out to me.

9:22
I’m sure you as well just we we want to show you how because it’s made an impact I know on your life Kady we talked and and and definitely on mine you know I’ve got a wife and three kiddos here at home and one example you know I can they they all all four of them had COVID just a couple weeks ago Oh my God I need to be here right and I’m not locked into this 40 hour week type of schedule necessarily to where I’m I’m bringing out contracted work and I’m staying busy of course and and working hard but I can take AI took a few days off and didn’t have to ask anybody you know I didn’t even have to tell anybody necessarily you know so that’s that’s I think the difference there to where you know it opens up those freedoms and I can’t imagine ever going back to any any type of in-house situation as a result.

10:18
Yeah, definitely. So you were basically an entrepreneur the whole your life. I mean, you, I mean, you started, you had different businesses prior to this one and I love that you mentioned that from your early age you knew you’re going to have your own business and you maybe worked like for a year for someone else.

10:37
Because I can totally relate to that. I had a job for eight months. That was it. And like that. That’s it. Everything in my life and that was in Las Vegas. I was working on science and printing company and I just like you quickly realized that that’s not for me and I wants to work from home and then you know you get tired kind of like working from home, then you want to have an office, then you are in a co-working space and then you go back to home.

11:01
At least that’s how I was. And you mentioned like having contractors. And I also know that when you were scheduling this podcast recording in the form you mentioned, working 20 to 30 hours per week while running three companies. Can you first tell us more about each company?

11:19
Yeah, of course. Of course. So, you know, what is my freelance business? I’ve been running, gosh, for up to 15 years now. And that’s, you know, really niches in to some extent in the branding space. Whenever I think this is great advice by the way, that’s whenever people said to specialize, I kind of ignored it a little bit just because I love working within, you know this umbrella hub, branding and all the different types of design work that comes from that, all the different industries and things.

11:54
So that’s not for everybody, right. I think you you’ve niched in on industry by the way, you know and and that’s that’s worked well for you and and that’s perfect, right. And so we each have our own individual goals. So it’s important I think amongst listening to this, it’s like you know it’s good to take in this information but you got to know your own goals first and if there’s a bice that aligns with those goals, great and and follow that and that’s that’s good and that’s practical and actionable for you.

12:24
If not, then you know you, you just got to be careful. I think so, yeah, getting back to your questions, so the portray design is my freelance business and you know, that’s been going for a while now. And then logo waves. It’s another entity that I started back in 2016. It’s a logo awards platforming competition where really it puts the spotlight on the amazing logo work that my fellow logo designers have created already for clients.

13:00
So it’s not like a 99 design, It’s like the opposite of 99 designs. You’re where you’re creating something and we’re putting an extra spotlight on it as opposed to doing spec work or something like that, which I am verbally against. So you know this, it’s been fun running that. My boys, you know, we’ve got, you know, trophies, right.

13:16
And so the trophies are sat and my boys, you know, they’re 7:00 and 9:00, they help package up the trophies and it’s, it’s been this fun little like side hustle type of thing. You know we’ve got an amazing jury with, you know, folks like Jacob Kass, David Airey who’s become a good friend of mine as a result of Logo Wave, Lena Wheeler, which you know as you know she just passed recently and we still have her on the site or says rest in peace Lena.

13:42
And you know I think, you know she’s been incredible to our industry and was just still giving up her time. So I want to make sure that I like her in in this conversation. But Bill Gardner, I mean, there there’s, you know, Ian Paget, we talked about him and you know, I I think the credibility that wasn’t maybe there at the beginning, you know, was brought forward because of this jury I I think at the beginning.

14:10
And so there’s a lot of freelancers coming in at the start, which there still is, but now there’s more studios and agents, bigger agencies coming in. And so that’s that’s become a litmus test like, OK, we’re doing something right. We’re still going to learn from our audience and listen well. But yeah $1000 to to and a trophy to the winner trophies to first second and third place logo lounge.

14:44
You know one year subscription. Other things that are fun that have kind of added to this price pack And of course the recognition what link back to your website that comes with it. So it’s built by a logo designer for a logo designers essentially. And then #3, the third one is is etch etch design is my had a subscription model, had a design agency to where really with with my freelance business I feel like I wanted to rebrand the the subscription or retainer model in a way where it felt a bit more credible.

15:12
And if a company was just coming in blind kind of through, you know maybe it’s like a cold e-mail or something like that or cold DM that there’s a little bit more credibility to talk you know behind edge than Port Right Design. You know this freelance business that looks like it’s just run by 11 specific owner.

15:33
So decided to learn web flow. I learned web flow in a day, put out the landing page and just kind of tested the waters. Did a soft launch about a year ago and yeah it’s it’s really a way for clients to come in and get that that 1% design quality, the reliability that they expect and then you know pretty quick turnarounds.

16:00
So it’s tough to get all three in this industry and we’ve got a small team here. I’ve got a creative team I’ve been working with for five years on kind of the freelance side to where I pitched it to and they’re like yes, let’s do this thing and so that’s let’s see six senior level designers, creative director.

16:19
I just hired a project manager and a BDR business development rep. So we’re a mighty team of 10 at this point and you know really just trying to take on we’ve got a few reserve spots and trying to fill a few more here. So we’re not looking to land like hundreds of clients for this thing. It’s it’s more you know keep the design quality, high quality in order to you know serve folks well because we’re not looking to outsource willy nilly too much.

16:55
So I think 10 is going to be my max client, client base. So I take on for that, but yeah, that’s what. I feel that now I have like 10 questions in my head, I should have like written them down all. So you have about 10 employees or contractors and who manages them, Like how do you find and also how do you find people that are the right fit?

17:12
Tell us more about like, how do you grow into an agency? Yeah, and we’re still figuring things out, so I’m not going to sit here and say, hey. I feel like it’s always like that. Always. Always. Hopefully right, you’re going to say the same thing. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I never want to come across that way because I’m a continual work in progress and that’s, that’s the understatement there.

17:33
But for what we have learned though, you know, for something like this, I know my target audience is those marketing managers, BPS of marketing, heads of marketing. So you know, we’ve dabbled in different spaces. I know that early stage start-ups are not the best fit. So mom and pop shops, early stage start-ups, they just don’t have the funding to it. It’s high ticket, right. So it’s around that $7000 a month mark. So you know I want it to be a good fit for them and us And if someone comes in you know the small business owner, I’m going to try to convince them to to not move forward with it if the funds aren’t there.

18:12
So you know it just has to, it has to be a symbiotic relationship and mutually beneficial just like any good partnership. So you know really the optimal audience here is you know those mid sizers to fortune 500s and right now I’m kind of ramping up the social media game for this. I haven’t even created social media profiles. I’ve really tried to commit to testing the waters, seeing if there’s a gap in the market first and then going into lead gen. and testing some different avenues there.

18:33
I will say that Apollo dot IO is a really interesting lead generation channel and this applies to so many different you know types of businesses, right. And I know that this is really creative centric, you know listener base here. So check it out. I’m not an affiliate or anything I’m just a believer. Apollo dot IO, they’ve got some great AI integrations built in and I think the price is right for the value that you get some dabbling and some different you know some different tech like Lucia is another one that I would I would say to look at Crunch.

19:25
Crunchbase Pro is another one that I’ve tried out that you do need a LinkedIn kind of premium subscription for that. But a lot of all three of those, especially Crunchbase and Apollo have incredible advanced search features. I mean you think LinkedIn is great with the advanced search? I mean this this just like levels it up the standards for.

20:03
Yeah. And for one example, you could, you could plug in ’cause you know you’re trying to figure out where in, in my space, at least in branding and design, when do clients need design the most? That’s the question I have to answer, right. And so from what I found in my research is when you have an investor round, so if there’s a if there’s an investor round within six months, you can say between zero and six months invest around and it pulls up all these different.

20:22
Companies that fit that mold right and I can talk directly to like leaders in marketing and drill it down to that as well. So you’re like niching in really on that avatar, that optimal avatar, so you can you know, really reach out to them and and you know, as we know, you know this Kady, timing, timing has to be right and you know the audience itself has to be, you know, exactly correct too.

20:48
So, you know, it’s just like any. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. No, I just have a quick question. So basically you would find the leads and then you reach out to them like called DM-ing or called emailing. Yeah. So that’s that’s a work in progress right now we’re testing things out with the the different tech but that’s the plan is to you know go call call DM on LinkedIn outreach e-mail e-mail sequences e-mail is still relevant believe it or not these days, right.

21:18
And it still works. So and then optimization of those you know once you see something work working you test a couple different things split test and and you you hone in on what works right. So just like any paid ad media that you might have you you test the creative you test the copy and and you you hone in on what works and you split again from there.

21:39
So it compounds in the best way possible. So yeah, those are a couple of platforms that I’m looking good, but really Kady, I’m, I’m playing the long game right now, especially at the beginning doing things that don’t scale. So even giving away some, I’m careful when I say this, but giving away free value I think is there’s a time and a place for that. If it’s valuable to your company, then there’s nothing wrong with that I don’t think.

22:01
But gosh, we could get into you know, the value of conversation and making sure that we’re, you know, pricing based on value and what we what we’re worth. And that’s so, so important. But you know, there’s sometimes when it’s worth it to give away a little bit in order to show that you can serve them well and you know, you know, kind of develop a or forge a bond and you know, nurture that bond over time and eventually maybe have them become a client.

22:38
Before we continue with this podcast episode, I just want to quickly remind you that if you’re a design business owner whose dream is to have a successful and profitable career so you can enjoy the freedom and flexibility that comes with it, then I have something for you.

22:54
The Profitable Designer Program is my signature 12-week system that will help you improve your business, sign amazing high-paying clients and truly achieve your financial and lifestyle goals. Visit aventiveacademy.com/profit to check if you can join us now or if we are currently not accepting more designers into the program.

23:16
In that case, you will be able to join the waitlist and be the first to know when we open the doors again. Now we’ll go back to the episode in a second, but I just want to add that designers who completed the program were able to sign 5-figure design clients 10 times their pricing reach. 6 figures and beyond make $20,000 per month while working only a few hours a week and more.

23:43
Here is what Julia said. It really has everything you could ever ask for to build a six-figure business that will allow you to have financial freedom. And that’s why I personally did it like I wanted that flexibility. So if you want to be my next success story and achieve results like these, visit aventiveacademy.com/profit.

24:04
Now let’s go back to the episodes. So now I’m curious when you mentioned all day like the value and maybe value based pricing and how with your subscription company, subscription design company, how do you communicate that?

24:22
How can people see that they will get a value cause well maybe yes, they know you, they saw your portfolio, but also how do you communicate how much they’re going to get per month. So let’s say they sign up 7008 thousand per month. Is that like unlimited designs you’re working 24/7 or like, how does that go?

24:41
I mean, I’d be in big trouble if I offered unlimited designs, just like truly unlimited, right? And I think this unlimited design model, I’m careful of some of that terminology because I think for those who are offering unlimited, right, it’s usually one at a time or you know two at a time, whatever package they go with.

25:03
So once one is complete so say a brain guidelines and once that’s complete we get the sign off then we move on to the next one and the next one. So that kind of keeps keeps it in place to where people can’t you know just say hey you know website brand guidelines logo and and and all this stuff at once you know we take it one at a time and we’re delivering it with speed with that quality.

25:28
So we feel like that is in alignment with that price point right. And and and going back to that, you know your your question, I think one of the things that really is the biggest value prop and especially you know think of it from a marketing manager’s perspective of these demo calls that I have with these marketing managers.

25:48
They think in terms of our ROI more than you know any designer might. And so they’re thinking in terms of how do I justify this to the CFO and and you know go about things that way. So you know you got to almost put on your marketing cap to some extent and know about how they speak and their, their language.

26:07
And so it’s really the conversation goes into the ROI of design and the distinction there. And so you know with their numbers it’s like you can hire a senior level designer easily for $100K, right. And if they’re an employee $20,000 more in benefits. And so with Edge you know it’s it’s seven KA month, it’s a it’s a it’s a good investment right. But you’re saving $30K to $40K by going with a contractor as opposed to that in-house employee.

26:41
And oh by the way, we’ve got great communication. We’re on it with the turnarounds. And so some of these potential objections we kind of crushed at the beginning because they know that we, we care about them, We’re going to take care of them well. And you know, we want to just see their visual brand grow and as a result their organization grow.

27:00
Yeah. And so how does that go when it comes to branding? I know you mentioned you work with larger companies and not with startups. So are they looking to like rebrand or they need to add more to their plates? Like if they have a website but maybe a few pages are missing or like where do you fit in when they’re not just starting a company?

27:21
Yeah, yeah. And that’s that’s the interesting part because with Longwood Identity part of our job is to make sure that they don’t a long time or ever you know so it’s memorable and timeless right and and stands the test of time. So I’ve really focused in on and this I think is is helpful whether you’re running a subscription design business or an agency studio freelance or whatever.

27:45
You know to the one of the game changers for my business and what has helped me grow exponentially is focusing on those designs that and I tend, I tend to really like this kind of category of design, the marketing design side to where you know you know ads, digital ads, it tends to be ongoing in nature.

28:04
You know even landing pages, e-mail template design, social media, graphics, blog graphics, things like this that I happen to enjoy. So I’m going to pursue them because of that. And oh, by the way, you can measure the results of some of these items, especially landing pages, e-mail design ads, things like that.

28:24
It can be measured. So these marketers know, OK, the investment that I’m putting in Kyle and his team is completely worth it and let’s continue. And so we work hard, you know me and you, Kady, we we know that there’s an ROI on design, but it’s it’s more about communicating what that ROI is and and how we put in the time and effort in order to make sure we’re we’re taking care of folks.

28:49
So yeah, that’s that’s all the the story there, yeah. And I felt. That a lot of designers, me included at the beginning, I never talked with the clients from their perspective, but I was always talking like, oh, you got two to three different logo designs to choose from. And they’re probably like, oh OK, I don’t care.

29:04
Like I they they just want to see how their business is going to grow. They don’t care about the deliverables. They don’t care even if I say you’re going to get some limited number of revisions, unless it’s a small client, then they want to not micromanaged, but they want to know every single detail because the risk for them is huge, because they don’t have to reinvest again because they have to start the business.

29:30
So you know, it’s just like it’s a different like working with smaller clients, larger clients, and can you tell us like how do you get clients for your freelance business? So not a subscription business, but let’s say 2-3 years ago, like how were you getting clients for your freelance business only?

29:47
Yeah. So really it started out with SEO, but it eventually has turned into word of mouth. So you know, and I’ve, I’ve listened to enough podcasts now. Oh great, like there’s another word of mouth, you know answer. But there, you know there’s some other lead gen avenues that are working these days and one of which is LinkedIn.

30:09
It’s very B to B thing most of our so business to business, right. For those who don’t know. And there’s an advanced search that is really powerful. You know you can apply to LinkedIn jobs, but you know as of the last year or two, it’s instead of 100 hundreds apply. It’s like thousands now, which is just nuts.

30:25
And I think LinkedIn took off the the cap where it says 100 plus now and because so many people are applying, they they don’t want to deter people from applying to these jobs if that’s how crazy it’s gotten right now in 2020 or early 2024 at the time of this. But yeah I think you know a a big thing for me has been word of mouth but but LinkedIn has been super helpful.

30:09
Strategic partnerships just are on the back end you know with with other creatives and agencies has been has been helpful. But more practically speaking, if if I would give one piece of advice to folks, it’s to use a recruiter. And I know when you you’re a recruiter, it’s like oh, like hourly right away.

31:21
It’s like based on time and which I there’s a time and a place for hourly work and nothing wrong with that I don’t think. But I tend to work on flat, flat rates, project based, because hourly can tend to devalue your experience, right? The more experience you have, more efficient you can get things done and it devalues that.

31:43
So again, there’s a time and a place I think and you know there’s some designers I work with that prefer hourly and that’s fine, I’m going to respect that. But there are some recruiters, there’s a subset of recruiters out there if you look hard enough that can work with you on 1099. So essentially on that project basis or in my case I, I, I have a lot of retainer type of clients that come in.

32:00
So it takes work, it takes some work, right. I’m not going to say these all just fall in my lap and they they have a little bit more as I’ve, you know, grown in my career because I’ve kind of developed that network of sorts. But if you look hard enough and you want it enough, you can find those 1099 folks that I would recommend in, you know, in areas like California, New York, Chicago where they have a higher cost of living because you can get paid more for the same same results, right.

32:34
And so and then what I would also say practically speaking is hone in on those boutique staffing agencies as opposed to these, these big players that where you just get lost in the competition, right. And So what I found with these boutique agencies and again you know high cost of living areas, they’re not only they found only less competition, but you are you’re kind of more high, high up on their list and they reach out to you sometimes, right.

33:06
The quality needs to be there and you know, there’s there’s some work to be done on the back end to make sure that you’re showing your value. But once you have that value that you’re sowing to folks like they’re, they’re going to be coming to you as a result, right. And I’m not saying you necessarily, Kady, I’m talking to like you know folks and like it’s they’re going to come in and it might not happen right away, right away, but with any good relationship, it needs to be nurtured.

33:33
And so I’ve got reminders for myself on a monthly by monthly basis where I’m just, you know, checking in with folks and obviously, you know, that’s there’s sometimes where I check in and I don’t need, I don’t need any work at that time necessarily. But it’s good to keep that relationship open with a roller coaster of a freelance world, right, For most of us to where when when there’s a little bit less work you can, you can come back to that person.

34:05
It doesn’t feel so like cold, right? Like you’re already checking in on them and so it’s it’s genuine. It just needs to be genuine and it’s not like you’re just trying to get something out of them. I’m a big advocate for you know gives 3-4 X before you before you receive type of thing.

34:27
So yeah that’s that’s a little bit more I like to show people like how instead of just like giving generic advice. So hopefully that that helps a a couple people along the way, definitely. And I feel like a lot of creatives don’t leverage LinkedIn enough because it’s not as visually appealing as Instagram or Pinterest.

34:49
And so they keep posting and posting and sharing and connecting and following, but maybe on the wrong platform. How did you and when did you figure out that LinkedIn is the right social media platform? And are you using any other social media platforms? You post on? Instagram Pinterest YouTube.

35:08
Yeah, so LinkedIn, I think it started to make sense to me about a year ago. I started posting every business day and I post ended up posting for eight months straight, every business day. And you know, I’m a designer, I’m not a writer, but I was, I was writing, you know, anywhere from short form, mid form to long form type of content.

35:26
So you know it was taking up at the beginning probably 2 hours of my day every day and then eventually got that down to about 30-40 minutes a day and automated some things and but really it was about testing the waters if if LinkedIn could really help someone in a creative or someone in my industry and I I I kind of like showed the whole process.

35:52
So if you know, if you wanted to, this isn’t a plug or anything, but you wanted to hop on, there’s, you know, it’s this. Kyle K Courtright is the it’s the last part of the handle there. But you can see my process of, you know, the cobwebs at the beginning. To say the least, I was just about to. Say how I’m going to do that as soon as we’re off the call.

36:08
And and you know that persistence and consistency is, is huge And as if I gave up at the beginning, we wouldn’t see the results that I had at the end. But essentially, you know after, you know 4-5, six months, there it was, it was around let’s see that four month mark was like nothing $0.00 and zero cents came in as a result of posting.

36:37
And so you start to get frustrated. It’s like oh is this even like worth it type of thing. And then that next month came and the floodgates opened with retainer work and 10s of thousands of dollars worth of work coming in. And it was like, well, OK, yeah, this is this has some some legs to it.

36:56
And so it served its purpose at that time. And I had to, you know, I I stopped writing for a little bit and want to hop back on because I just missed the interactions I had with people. And not that, you know, I I think business is good right now, but I I want to be able to have those interactions and help folks.

37:14
And it was just really about finding my voice and flushing it out from that, you know, maybe 70% mark to 100%. That’s what I found with writing is the more that you write, the more that you can flesh out those ideas and really get behind it. You know, ’cause there’s, there’s some ideas. I have this like I heard that somewhere and I feel like I believe this, but I don’t know why all the way, right.

37:29
And so just trying to be really vulnerable and honest with myself as much as I can and I’m not innately A vulnerable person I feel like, but just trying to put myself out there don’t care about the likes you know comments all the engagement like of course that’s important and that that’ll help me reach more folks and to to track those things is important too I think.

37:59
But I just focused on the content itself and OK, can I make impact on LinkedIn as a creative. And so the answer really is if you put in enough time, like if I gave up at 3 months, I wouldn’t have seen the exponential kind of results from it. And So what I would say is don’t give up.

38:18
You know, there’s there’s that whole like graphic from visualize value. I’ll know some of you have seen this where it’s like you know there’s nothing and then it says this is pointless and then it goes in this hockey stick type of moment after that and that’s where most people give up. So when you feel like giving up just persist through is the best thing that I can say and and eventually I don’t know when, right.

38:35
I don’t have a crystal ball but good things will happen if you keep at it. Yeah, and I think. That a lot of people do give up, including myself in some things. You know, if I was putting a lot of effort into something for like 3-4 months, you just give up and try to focus on something else and then you become like overwhelmed because all of a sudden you tried Instagram, Pinterest, YouTube, LinkedIn, TikTok and nothing’s working.

39:07
Well, it’s not working because you’re not consistent enough and not, you know, long enough on that platform. Now I know you are all about SEO and you talked about it in the past and I think I even asked you for a backlink in 2017 on your website. Can you share some like maybe wins like you were getting clients through SEO, right.

39:25
So like what is that that you were doing maybe on your website? Like is it just like about the keywords or is it blogging? Just tell us more about the SEO and how to get clients. 39:41. Yeah, of course. So like I kind of mentioned the game has changed and I know you know this since, you know even you know 10 years ago and so you can’t just you know pop up some some keywords here on Myspace, you know branding, you know I was, I was ranking for branding Albuquerque Craft Designer, Albuquerque Logo Designer, Albuquerque, you know and that’s that’s really what what helped me grow And so organically and naturally within your page you want to have some of those keywords in there.

40:12
And there’s what’s called LSI keywords. Now latent semantic indexing or something crazy like that. But essentially Google’s smart enough to know that if you’re, if you have the word, you know, graphic designer on there, then it help. 40:30. Like it correlates directly to someone searches brand designer or or branding or things like that. So that’s what helps you know search you know protect the integrity of search if you will and and so really that that’s what was working for me at the beginning and I actually what I did as part of my SEO and overall strategy was instead of just ranking for my local area I decided to and it took some work to to get to this place but gather all these different print directories from all around different cities in the US specifically.

41:11
And so I would list these out with you know Birmingham, AL print directories for instance and I would show clients how to find local printer printers in a local area. So it was a helpful tool for them and then you know there’s a form on on that page too if they they needed some design to support that.

41:32
And so essentially I put those out on my site map and so I had few people coming in left and right from all different areas of the country eventually not just my local locally specific area. So that was that was a big game changer for me and you know SEO like I said it’s kind of it was like 90% of the leads coming in at that point and now it’s flipped to 90% is is more of the you know, word of mouth traffic and SEO is still working.

42:03
But I found that, you know when you’re referred by folks and it’s it has to be more qualified than someone coming randomly off Google necessarily. So that’s, you know, we can talk about qualification all day too, but I’m not going to get into that until you you say let’s let’s do it.

42:22
But yeah, that’s that’s really what has been been working. I think if someone was just coming in and saying I know nothing about SEO I would recommend setting up a my My Business Google, My Business listing and getting some reviews. 42:40. I mean some even if you’re just starting out you could get like a character review if you haven’t worked on one project and people value that And so you can start building out those those reviews on Google.

And that of course is increasing the credibility of your listing and get you and those maps that that three-part like map listing and then that helps with the organic side of the the listings below that and and organic search too.

43:06
So that’s where I would start and really just optimize that and build it out with great keywords. Set up your keywords naturally on your homepage you know there’s H1 and H2 tags and all these things that that go into that or you may need a a developer of sorts to if if you don’t know WordPress or like ACMS like that. But that’s that’s where I would start is local search in your local area.

You know for me it would be brand designer, you know Albuquerque where I was or graphic designer Albuquerque and find that equivalent and and really phone in on that or specifically your homepage is really important.

43:46
Make sure you got back links going to different pages within your site and his linking is really important for the credibility of a site as it’s coming from different sources and and go from there. So there’s so much there and I’m just trying to pack in you know as much as possible here without going too too crazy with it.

Yeah, and I will just. Add because we talked about consistency on LinkedIn and then we also talked about SEO. So I’m going to just share and I think I maybe I even told you this via e-mail, but maybe I didn’t. I’m getting most of our clients. So most of our clients are really coming through our blog and that is because all our blog posts and we post only two times a month and so it’s SEO.

44:29
Yes, we do have, you know, the whole website is optimized. We have Google My Business page, we ask for reviews, we’re getting reviews and all of that. But people are coming through blog because it’s so specific. It’s not like branding for startups. 44:45. No, it’s a branding for a natural skin care line. And yes. And then from.

There you know people well first of all whoever types that in, you know natural skin care line branding, we’re the only company that’s going to come up and like we’ll and they’ll get like multiple pages from our website. And then from there we provide like quality blog posts.

And I think so 7-8 years ago I was writing them by myself and then my husband was proofreading them. And then, yeah, ’cause, you know, English is my second language and he’s an American. 45:20. So like, well, here you go, You have to proofread. And he had and see he still has like 9 to 5. And so after five, he would come home and work on my business. That’s a good man, right? There.

And I love it. You guys are cheap, yeah? Yeah, we are. And now I have a Blogger who writes, writes for us. So I don’t even do anything my manager would send. These are topics we want to talk about. He would submit the blog posts. We don’t even read them anymore because he’s been with us for the past like five years.

I just, you know, and my manager will like copy paste them, just put them in WordPress, optimize everything. But clients are coming through that because it’s so specific. And also just like you, I didn’t see any results for maybe even years and I was just like writing and I was like, no, no, no, I believe in this.

It’s going to happen. It’s going to happen. I love that so. Much and that’s that’s such a good point that you make with it’s what’s called our long tail keywords right And so long tail is essentially and and you there’s different tools online that you you can use kW Finder as a as an interesting one kwfinder.com I mean Google has some great tools that are free and some others but I think that you know long tail is where it’s at because even if it you know you want to find that sweet spot when it comes to search volume to of course and and you you found that sweet spot but you know if if no one’s searching for it there’s no point in you know moving forward with it but we still have to keep it long tail and and you know it might be you know identity you know identity designer you know based in in this this this city and so it doesn’t have to.

46:58
Be a specific project, like my example. It’s why I decided to do that is because I really wanted to get a skin care line. So every time I imagine, oh, I would like to work on a supplement blog post right All about it. Amazing. Amazing.

And that that’s such a good, I mean that that’s so good because you’re niching in on the type you’re tracking the type of design that you want to work on. I mean it’s a lot of people say this right. But it’s I think a lot of people miss it where it’s like OK I need to start with what I’m passionate about and what I truly enjoy working on first because I mean we always say like like think of the client first, which is it’s it’s really important to think of the client of course, but it’s not going to have the legs to go the distance if you don’t have that that base of passion behind it first.

47:21
So I love what you’re doing there. I I think that’s so smart of how you’re going about it and and you’ve seen the results right. You you continue to grow and you’re building out you know all these different diverse avenues and yeah it’s been fun to see how how you how you develop this incredible brand.

Well, thank. You and thank you for being on the show. I think you’ve shared so much about like getting clients and not just any clients, but really getting good clients. And I’m sure our listeners are taking notes. I definitely am. So every time you see me looking down, I’m taking notes and I started to be posted notes.

48:24
Now I have like a bunch, but before we sign off, could you please share with our listeners where they can find more about you, maybe your work and your businesses? Like do you have websites, social media profiles that you would like to share?

Yeah, sure. Thanks. It’s Courtrightdesign.com and that’s my freelance business. etchdesign.co is is the subscription kind of business there and I’m I’m kind of all, all everywhere with the handles on on social media. But Kyle Courtright Design is is my Twitter and then Courtright Design is some of the others.

49:00
So there’s a whole story behind that. But yeah, that’s that’s where you can can find me on socials. Perfect. So to our listeners, be sure to check out all the websites and connect with him on social media. And thank you all for tuning in. And Kyle, thank you so much for being here. It was a pleasure talking to you.

49:16
Enjoyed it. Thank you for having me, Kady. Appreciate it.

Thanks for tuning in. To the Profitable Graphic Designer Podcast. But wait, before you go, if you enjoyed this podcast episode and want the chance to access one of our online courses for free, simply leave us a review on Apple Podcast.

49:37
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50:03
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50:23
Until next time, be sure to connect with us on Instagram at @aventiveacademy, where we share valuable business tips, stories and resources for brand, graphic and web design business owners. Bye for now, your host, Kady Sandel.